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166 Comments
Vote NO – The “school” is a giant scam.
One of the few things I agree with Dilly on. I’m a no vote.
Voter suppression with the polls only open 2pm to 8pm
NO!Enough with that money pit.
A big money pit. Vote NO
I’m a yes vote
I’m a yes vote too. The state is paying 40% of NEEDED repairs. Better than Belmar residents Paying 100% over the next 5 years.
If the vote doesn’t pass, the town will receive no help from the state of NJ. The work will have to be done anyway , and will cost taxpayers more if the vote goes down. Vote yes.
#6,7&8 Send the snot nose kids someplace else. Have either of you seen first hand the needed repairs? Buy computers for each kid and teach them on line. VOTE NO
My idea of voting NO is not basically about money. It’s the idea that our system of education is totally obsolete and has been for 30-40 years or so now and to keep pouring money into it is harmful to the taxpaying citizenry and the “students.” We have an opportunity here to vote this waste of time and effort down and by extension go to the town meeting and demand they don’t allocate resources for this project, but change the methodology of education here in Belmar.
I’m a YES vote. Has to be done, better to have the state pay 40%
Vote YES! Don’t you ignorant people realize that a strong school builds a strong community? You say you want all this new housing to attract young people who want to start a family, then give them a reason to come to our town. You can’t start a revolution until you get behind it and support it! I’m tired of all the negativity. Why don’t you start the day with fresh eyes. The town is moving forward with or without you. Face it!!!
#12, Just because I’m voting no doesn’t mean I’m spewing negativity. It’s my right to vote how I feel. Secondly, I’m also against all the new housing and proposed development.
The school isn’t a new construction. It’s about fixing something that already exists and supporting the students who already attend. You should realize all the potential these children have in our town and support them. Wake up!! They are our future!! Ps. I also do not support the over building of Belmar.
10-Skimming stones and climbing trees is your idea of a solid education, as you’ve stated in the past. Right! Young people will have lots of life-choices with that background! Get real!
I think it’s time to rationalize. If Belmar is the chosen hub let all the other sending districts kick in.
I don’t understand your humor. Why don’t you research some Belmar graduates and see their accomplishments. You seem like you have a low level IQ #15.
People, The state pays 40%????? Where in God’s name do you think that 40% comes from. YOUR POCKET. And the more of your money that goes to the state the poorer YOU are. Let me decide what to do with MY money. Not the state.
Keep in mind there are many children supported in Belmar Elementary with special needs and assisted care who have siblings who also attend Saint Rose. It’s not about dividing our community. It’s about helping our community. Open your mind.
My wife and I attended one of the informational meetings and are voting for it. The quality of our school and its assets are directly related to the quality of our community and the value of our properties. The work needs to be done. I applaud the School Board and our Superintendent for planning ahead and taking advantage of this grant opportunity to get the State to contribute more than $4 million of the cost of these repairs and improvements. (Yes, the $4M are tax dollars, too, but voting no won’t save them; it will only ensure that a town with smarter voters gets that money). The timing is right. The school will be paying off another bond in two years. They have reserves to pay the debt service on the new net debt until then, meaning this new debt will not increase our taxes.
We don’t “save” money by neglecting our municipal assets. You need only need look around at the shameful condition of our streets, our water towers, meters and transmitters, and our municipal building to see what happens when our elected officials “save” tax dollars – not by cutting fat — but by failing properly to maintain our assets and infrastructure.
King Kenny has spoken. So let it be written, so let it be done!
Finally some common sense for Belmar!
A below average school with above average funding. VOTE NO
The new debt will increase our taxes.
and that’s why you are just an average joe…
17-I’m # 15, I posted with the name Really?? I agree with you 100%! I support the school-always have since my children attended Belmar School. I’m commenting on a post Mr. Dilberger posted a while ago. He thinks boys should skim rocks and climb trees as part of their school program. No humor-pretty sad thinking. I am discrediting everything that he says about our beloved school.
Mr. Dilberger there is an old Chinese proverb which states “ I hear a lot, but you say very little.”
I fully support the upgrades and improvements to Belmar Elementary School, and have voted Yes by mail-in . As a former teacher at the school for many years, my thoughts are with the children, staff and administrators as we await tomorrow’s vote. The necessary projects will enhance the learning environment for our students. To answer a previous question, I have witnessed what is needed and what is planned for revitalizing the building. The school is as fine an education center as it’s always been. Teachers deliver instructions masterfully, always evaluating and addressing the individual differences in our students. My husband Doug and I served as board members for a combined 25 years…at different times. He is a retired superintendent of schools from Ocean Twp, and has great confidence in our Belmar School District. With his background, he is able to assess the quality of a school district. Please vote YES tomorrow. Our children deserve the very best that we have to offer.
#20- If the Board and Super. did so well planning this scam, why wasn’t this placed on the ballot in Nov., whether the past or the coming? You know why. And these GRANTS are nothing but SCAMS. The state TAKES an excess of your money, passes it around Trenton to pay for administrative political job to oversee this money. Then give the people back 80 cents on the dollar they take. It’s scam (grants) and we will enable it by voting for it. Mr. Governor, stop taking more and more of my money and let me decide where I should spend it. And it won’t be for grants and paying the unneeded salaries that go along with them.
Interesting responses. I’ll take some of them a bit further than they go. It is said many BES students become successful people. Possibly, but maybe their success is in spite of BES. What of the BES student who takes up the trade of burglary? Should the taxpayers be proud of his “accomplishments”? What about the BES student who sells meth to the successful BES student who became a lawyer? Again, is that because of what he learned in BES, etc., etc., etc. So let’s temporize on conferring all sorts of accomplishment on BES.
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All I can make of the people who are voting yes is that they have some sort of connection to the school that the normal taxpayer doesn’t. That can be the only rational concept for their reactionary viewpoint. Also, they seem desperate that this measure succeed. They sense that taxpayers have awakened to the overall “educational” scam (they’re right about that I think).
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As I say, this is about replacing the failed/obsolete system. It’s time is past, no good throwing good money after bad here. Vote NO.
Before voting ask yourself this question… Is the BOE request a “want or need”… Then vote according to your belief….
In 1635, the first public school was created. Over one hundred years ago it became federally mandated throughout our entire country. Paying to educate all children with tax dollars is what we do in the US. It seems as if you want to change that. It won’t happen by voting no to add air conditioning to lil’ old Belmar school.
There are state and federal mandates that I wish I could change for (what I think) is best for our school. Alas, I can’t. Meanwhile, every day, kids and teachers have to use this 110 year old facility.
We have to work our budget based on mandatory expenses and a 2% cap on tax increases. Meanwhile, as you know, we lost state aid and our high school tuition goes up each year more than 2%. I’m relieved that our previous and current business administrators planned for the reduction in aid (and were off by only $353… in our favor, by the way). They’re doing a good job.
Public institutions are climate controlled. They have safe flooring. They have double-pane modern windows. They have seats that don’t break under a person’s weight. Voting to “save” about $5 per month on your tax bill so that these problems don’t get solved will not solve the problems you have with the education system in the US.
Our school’s facility problems won’t go away, but the 40% aid will if you vote no.
It’s fiscally frugal to vote yes. Operating expenses over the next 20 years will go down when these changes are made. It’s the right thing to do.
Very well said Aileen. Whatever problems anyone has with “educational system” or the “new way of living”, voting no will only ensure that some other town gets the 4 million. On top of that, we will have to make these repairs anyway. We are mandated to educate our children in a safe and healthy environment. The repairs are needed. I believe we need to take advantage of the state program while it is available. I’m voting yes.
Has a detailed proposal been forwarded to the public to see exactly what and where this money is going?? Are there bids from contractors that have been received?? How much does one window cost?? Perhaps this can be done for less, perhaps it may cost more. “Show me the Money” proposals. Maybe do a buy a window fundraiser. Maybe the parents of some of these children that show up in brand new pick-up trucks with out of state plates can do the labor for free. Everything is free right Bernie.
#34 The problem with paying window by window as you suggest is that we would pay full cost, rather than having the state pick up the 40%.
In addition, I believe the referendum process determines that the boe can’t ask for bids until it is approved. The costs are estimated by the engineering/arch firm. The bidding process takes place if the referendum is approved.
You people who are so against this BES proposal should worry more about what they are planning to do on the waterfront. Put all your energy in that proposed mess.
30-Your thoughts make no sense. Whaat is your plan for education in this country? Can’t wait to hear this.
#34 have you been living under a rock?? A detailed proposal is on the school website and has been highlighted with the website reference countless times in the media.
This other manner of living – this clueless to the way society works manner of living is so frustrating. It’s amazing anything of value ever gets done with people like #34 on the voting rolls.
#38-I totally agree with you . Mr. Dilberger has no knowledge of what schools are about. His remarks are senseless. He uses the same remarks that have no meaning. “New manner of living?” “Obsolete schools?”. Sure, some students succeed because they’re naturally capable. But many succeed because of the basics, the three R’s, learned at Belmar Elementary. Burglary? What a ridiculous comparison. Maybe the people closest to the school know much more about the school than Mr. Dilberger professes to know. Thank You, Aileen, for your intelligent comments.
BES and all the children who attend, WON THE VOTE!!!
Oh well, we lost again to the reactionary group. In the end of course, the good people who believe in progressive, enlightened education will triumph.
People in our community care about and children and our school! Fantastic victory for Belmar!
It’s a proud day for Belmar! The victory with the referendum vote demonstrates that residents care about our children!
Amazing win for Belmar School. Lots of support shown with the overwhelming win.
Close the schools and turn them into infirmaries. We’re gonna need them. Stats are 15-20 percent of those becoming ill need hospital care. And death rate of 3-4 percent is alarming.
What a blessing for the town and the children of Belmar that the referendum vote was positive. So many people voted yes .
Just learnt of the referendum vote passing. Great news! Big turnout for the yes vote.
Thanks for the YES votes Ken, Katrina and others! Next step is a basketball court for the school playground. The BOE would never ask taxpayers for a basketball court, so the PTA is having lots of fundraisers. The big push for funds is happening now during March Madness. Hope you can chip in, especially you Mr. Dilberger, as this court will encourage the boys to play outside;)
#48 – “as this court will encourage the boys to play outside”
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Wrong word. They won’t be “encouraged,” they’ll be forced. There’s a difference.
#48 – I almost missed this. “Play” is not forced or overseen with boys. “Play” takes place spontaneously. When adults interfere in the spontaneity, and enforce “rules” and rules of conduct onto the so-called play, they take away any benefits the experience of the “game” could have for the participants. I don’t expect female women to understand that. Just like I don’t understand things about female women.
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Finally, I don’t care about a fundraiser. The so-called victory about the renovation is just marking up the real issue, which is the end of this system of education we see before us. But reactionaries always seem to win all the battles against the progressive people like myself but in the end, this rotten, putrefied corpse of an “educational system” we have will collapse.
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I will suggest a book/pamphlet for you. It’s on amazon for a couple of bucks – “Experience & Education.” Old book, 1938 copyright. It explains concepts people who practice the new manner of living don’t understand. heckova little book. Of course, I don’t expect you to read it.
Mr. Dilberger is adding a new word to his negative vocabulary. “Reactionary” is a word he’s been posting with the passing of the referendum vote. This goes along with the phrase “New way of living” and other choice phrases and words. Can’t change things, Mr.D. The vote was overwhelming for the pro side.Your negative remarks about the school had no impact on our residents or the vote count.
50-So boys don’t need organized play and rules? What? So they can play in the street if they care to do so-with traffic? So they can play so hard that they could cause injury to each other? So they can play after dark if they want to? Have you ever heard the lifelong phrase play by the rules?
Please stop engaging with #50. He gives moronic responses to either get a rise out of people, OR he really is a dotty little man.
53-#50 believes every comment that he posts. So which of the choices that you post applies to Mr.Dilberger? It’s pretty obvious.
I agree, #53. No need to respond to Mr. Dilberger anymore. The referendum vote tells the story about what people think of his ideas. He advised people to one no. (Now he’s calling the yes voters reactionaries.) An overwhelming number of residents voted yes-541! The results tell it all about what residents think of Mr. D. I’m finished posting about him.
This is directed at 50. So how about organized sports ? Many boys participate in Pop Warner, little league, etc. They go on to high school and play football, baseball and basketball. Are you against all organized play?
Also, what are your ideas about what students should be taught? You skirt this issue, but you use horrible adjectives to describe a very successful education system in this country. Did I read somewhere that you endorse climbing trees and throwing stones in the water for boys as part of their school day? What exactly is this new way of living that you frown upon? You throw out statements with no backup.
This is what intelligent individuals do when the state and town are facing financial difficulties…… Please see attachment…. https://www.google.com/amp/s/patch.com/new-jersey/middletown-nj/amp/28633709/tears-anger-middletown-boe-votes-close-port-monmouth
50, your thinking is very superficial. You think at one level, never looking further than your point of view. So much more to an idea than your thoughts. You never really thought through the idea of play without rules; even safety rules for youngsters. Boys could end up seriously hurt without
rules of safety when young people get involved with games. If boys are going on to high school sports they should experience rules of play so that they can adjust easily to high school competition. Are you against rules enforced at the sports/high school level also? Are you against high school sports? Nephews and relatives had great success with high school sports. These experiences paved the way for college and successful adult lives.
Interesting posts. First, I’ll just focus on one point people have spoken about. I was referring to the dynamics (very interesting)of a game played by unsupervised small boys – 7-9 years of age(they use their own “rules”). When they get older is when they should have supervision and learn finer points of a sport.
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Don’t be so upset by words – reactionary. The word reactionary only points to people who are fearful of change. This world is undergoing constant change. Also, my use of the phrase, [new manner of living] is just pointing to the obvious, a new manner of living that has never been seen before in 40+ centuries of recorded history. I don’t use these words to castigate you, just to help you understand what’s going on.
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Lastly, I’m sorry to hear about the school #57 put on this blog. I feel for those people who will lose their jobs, but things change. I also lost a job because it became obsolete. When I was a boy, I worked in a bowling alley as a pin setter. The alley went to automatic pin setters and I and all the other boys were laid off – progress.
His definitions are silly….Reactionary if fearful of the specific change he wants, New Manner of Living if one does change in the way he doesn’t want. As it goes, the change he wants isn’t real change, it’s just the destruction of something he thinks led to the new manner of living – that is, this life where women and minorities are speaking up and actually being heard. He wants the 1950s when he was a pin setter and an iron worker and got those jobs easily because he was a white man. He is in fact his definition of a reactionary and doesn’t understand progress.
60-Perfectly stated! He still hasn’t said what the New manner of living is, or how the education system can improve. Your assessment of Mr. D as a reactionary is brilliant . He thinks he’s a progressive. What a joke!
So glad the referendum passed! I got my neighbors and friends to vote Yes. For our children.
It’s interesting that the “school” is closed because of this virus. I always wanted the school[s] closed, but I didn’t want them closed because of illness. I always wanted them closed for the good of American students and the taxpaying citizenry. I fear nothing good will come of all this with the same treacherous, unthinking rabble in charge of the system.
There are boys outdoors again. Thank the Lord. I pray the Lord cancels the rest of the school year. I’m so very happy to see boys out again. If they don’t go back to school again until Sept., I think their Marxist “teachers” will never be able to control them again.
64-Explain Marxist teachers I’m a teacher. I have no idea what you’re talking about. We do our very best in the classroom to instruct our students in a way that they will be successful in life. So please explain. Also explain new way of way. Explain obsolete. Climbing trees and throwing stones a better curricula? Explain reactionary. My fellow teachers are outstanding individuals and instructors. You stand alone in your dislike of us. Please explain all that I’ve put out to you. My state learning pretty basic stuff-reading, writing and math in accordance with state mandates. Have you ever observed a class being taught? You make statements that have no merit. Thankfully no one agrees with you.
64-Explain Marxist teachers. Explain new way of living. Explain obsolete. Explain climbing trees and throwing rocks. Explain reactionaries.
64- You have no idea what today’s teaches are like. They are more than prepared to instruct each day. They teach with great knowledge of the subject matter they present And care about each and every student in their class(es). Also, in most districts teachers are required to pursue ongoing course work to keep up with what students need to know. How can you criticize when you know nothing about what goes on in classrooms? When have you observed in a classroom? When have you reviewed the academic standards imposed by the state of NJ? Why do you think that more and more young people go on to great jobs and lives? You don’t think schools and teachers have nothing to do with their successes? When have you taken college classes having to do with becoming a teacher? But why am I concerned about you? People who read your comments just shake their heads and laugh at your ridiculous remarks. They say,” He can’t be serious.” So keep your comments coming-Marxist, obsolete, new way of living, we always need a good laugh. Not just me-but many people who are regulars on this blog. Let’s continue to throw rocks and climb trees. Everyone can become a tree surgeon. We all can throw rocks to strengthen our arms.
Why on earth would you call teachers Marxist ? Do even understand what you are suggesting? Explain to me what you think the word means.
#67 – first, I don’t explain myself to you. I’ll say this to you. Your “job” is hanging by a thread. If the nitwits we’ve elected to office don’t send these children back to their holding pens/”schools” before Sept., you will learn a valuable lesson. That lesson is you’re no different from anyone else. Your just a number like all the rest of us and your job can, and will be done away with like it never existed.
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Speaking of being only a number, many years ago when I was a young man, I remember being a number (#74).
I was naked, with the number 74 printed on my chest with grease pencil walking down a gauntlet of corpsman injecting me with shots in either shoulder as I walked – I/we are only a number to the powers that be.
69-Why are you using the word Marxist when describing teachers? What do mean by people as reactionary? I’d like to take your explanations to my fellow educators.
69-How is my job hanging by a thread? Why is it that you are against students learning what they need to know for life?
Speaking of numbers, there are over 110,000 teachers in NJ. .Probably more like 200,000. We’ll all be losing our jobs? Hanging by a thread? You don’t have to explain yourself mainly because you have no idea what the word Marxist means. You throw words around with no knowledge of what they mean. As far as your naked account, that’s too much information. What on earth does that have to do with anything? We’re all just numbers? That’s a true non sequester.
#71 – Why didn’t you put the word job in quotes? It used to be a job, but is no longer a job.
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To answer your second “question,” I think their chances of learning something useful in life are a lot better if they’re away from the “teachers” in the government holding pens/”schools.”
It certainly is a job-a great and important profession. Setting up for the day for my students-going in to school an hour before the students to prepare for the day. Teaching throughout the day. Reviewing lessons and plans for the next day after the students are dismissed. Correcting papers at home after supper until 8 or 9 o’clock. Keeping up with standards put forth by the state. Oft times there are faculty meetings after school.
What do you mean by Marxist when referring to teachers? You never answered the question. I love my profession, and am humbled when students, now in college and young adults, return to tell me that my influence is great in their lives. Yes, they are in college, imagine that! Whether I put the words job or teacher in quotes or not, I’m still proud of the work I do. By the way, none of my former students are studying tree-climbing or rock-throwing. They are studying to be engineers, accounts, nurses, etc. And they are doing so because of the basics I taught them in elementary school.
74-Also incorporating technology into every lesson, and keeping up with ever-changing technology. This is also part of the daily responsibilities of teaching professionals.
#75 – “They are studying to be engineers, accounts, nurses, etc”
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That reminds me of when I was a boy at good old PS92. The teacher was yelling at a boy whose stupidity rivaled even mine and finally said to him, [do you want to end up being a garbage man?]. Another boy in the room said, [Hey, my father’s a garbage man, what’s wrong with that?]. You should have seen that woman back off – wrong thing to say in a room full of children of blue collar workers. Interesting how you never forget certain fragments of your past.
Mr Dilberger, please explain your dislike of teachers. I am presently a teacher of very young children. I love teaching them to read. How else would they learn? Parents could do this, but not every parent has the time or inclination to do this. You never give your ideas as to what’s wrong with our system of education. But other than climbing trees and throwing rocks, you have not come up with anything substantial. What and how exactly do you want children to learn? Today’s teachers love what they do, and do it well. Many other teachers will be posting about their profession, what it means to them, and the results that they witness in each and every child that they educate.
Whether you are a doctor or a garbage man you still need to know how to read and write. No matter your job or your position in life, if you do your job well, then you earn dignity and respect.
Teaching is my profession, and I love my work. Yes work, Mr. Dilberger. Each day is special to me when I’m in the classroom. Children learn differently. Some have visual strengths, while others have auditory abilities. Meeting the needs of each and every student on a daily basis is part of what I do as a teacher. Are my students comprehending what I’m presenting? Do I need to simplify instruction? Evaluations and other types of checks are most important so I can confirm the various levels of learning within my classroom. I love what I do. Calling us Marxists is so wrong . At the end of the school term, it is with great satisfaction that I send my students on to a new grade, and another classroom. Reading, writing and mathematics are the building blocks for success in life. How else can people function in an advanced society?
41-What is your idea of enlightened education ?
First of all, the children of Belmar school are still being taught by their teachers. They’re being taught online everyday.
Secondly, Mr. Dillberger has been brainwashed by his media outlet. His media successfully put the fear of socialism into him (even though we are still very much a capitalist nation). At the same time, his media outlet has deflected the obvious facts that show a rise in totalitarianism in our country.
Mr. Dilberger may not have been a good student in school, but he is a very avid learner in the school of Fox news, Rush Limbaugh, and the latest right wing internet media. He’s also been hooked by Cambridge Analytica and Brad Parscale.
This is what happens when you don’t broaden your mind and heart. Know this, move away from responding to him and be at peace: Good teachers could have helped him. The kids at BES have better teachers than he did.
I am a teacher. I learned about your teacher-bashing. You can’t know how wrong you are. Teacher in quotes-Marxist-my former students will be posting here . What is your beef against teachers? Many teachers-present and firmer-learned of your remarks. The support for those in my profession will continue. We are dedicated to our students. Those who follow me on this blog will continue to post about our work and dedication. I have alerted many teachers about your negative remarks.
Just learned about whoever this is calling teachers Marxist. I have dedicated my life to my profession and students. We are united against these comments. You have no idea about the dedication of individuals who teach. Many more professionals will be responding.
I teach foreign language. How could you possibly know what and how I teach? This remark has to do with Mr. Dilberger’s comments. How are you, Mr. D, with Spanish, French and Latin?
#81 – Sir/Madam, I’ll answer your question as an honest question. The concept of education has been obsolete for many years now. The society has moved on from it now. All you have now is students seemingly going through the motions of “learning,” whereas all your looking at are children who’ve learned how to pass a test but not learned the subject matter except in a very shallow way and then forget 20 mins. after they leave the test room.
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It used to be that the children learned a lot (by experiencing) before and after school through their experiences at play (people don’t understand the underlying dynamics of a child’s game being played by unsupervised children) and just going to and from school unescorted. Or even the idea of children with chores, tending the yard and lawn, shoveling the walk, etc. It’s all lost now.
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My idea is to get together a selected group of boys, in the area of grades 4-6, maybe 20 of them. and make their classroom the out doors. Make the subject matter into a concept of motion and hands on functional work – play. To introduce them to their physical world surrounding them. Interesting that this would have to be said but I’ll say it. No, not on inclement days (but you also have to understand there are varying ideas of the word, “inclement”).
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#81 – Sir/Madam, I’m going to stop now but I’ll continue if your really interested and I’ll answer your questions as best as I can as long as I don’t detect you as not sincere in your questioning. Please identify yourself as #81. Take care and have a good day.
86-Would there be any structure to outdoor play? What happens when book learning disappears? Students ongoing academics to succeed in life. While many jobs are linked to the outdoors, professions center around intellectual development. What about girls? Women often have the same jobs/positions as men in today’s world. How would they be educated? Most young married women have full-time jobs as they run households and raise children-and make good money along with their husbands to support families. #81.
#87/81 – Would there be any structure to outdoor play?
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To answer your first question, there is an inner unseen dynamic/structure going on of unsupervised games. It’s a physical, mental, emotional exercise going on all at the same time. It’s very hard to explain. so I put this video back on here once again for you to look at. Please, tell me what you see when you watch those children. When a child goes into a school, all that stops because the adult is the boss and the idea of freedom just collapses. I await your answer. I hope it is a well thought out response.
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…1959 – Children At Play In New York City Slums 220639-08 | Footage Farm
I agree about outdoor play. I am elderly, and I remember my Dad insisting that we played outdoors, only to go inside to use the facilities and for lunch. He used to say”You need fresh air.” The entire neighborhood of kids would play in our yard .
So we agree on that point. But what about what people need to advance in life? Learning to read and do math, and compose a written sample? Is there a way that we can combine the two concepts? Outdoors and classroom learning? My own children were also involved in creative play. I came home from work one summer day to find a radio facing out from a screened window and the entire neighborhood of youngsters roller skating to the music on our cemented basketball court. Kickball was another favorite of our kids. We live on a small, quiet street-perfect for kickball in the street. Usually no cars.
To oversee this project, a man (with an assistant – both military veterans if possible, HS graduates, not college educations) should accompany the boys and work this job only one year. He should use copious notes on the activities of the boys and keep his eye on the interactions as much as possible. He would work five days a week with the boys and on Sat., he would put his notes together. and send them to a committee in Trenton for evaluation (that committee should be made up of half male teachers, half tradesmen who volunteer to go over the notes and sort them and discuss the project and make adjustments to it).
Interesting ideas!
This coronavirus is an opportunity to acquaint your teenagers with the outdoors. Send them on foot for myriad errands to get small items (keep them small so you he can carry them easily). Once he get’s back, tell him you forgot something and send him to a different store for the next item, etc. It will keep him outside most of the day and out of mischief. Tell him also to use different routes. This will be very educational. Actually, the teenager probably doesn’t even know the way there by himself. The only time he ever was there was by being driven.
Good plan! The internet, as great as it is for information, has been detrimental for teens . Many do little else but sit in front of the computer hour after hour. I believe that’s why so many young people aren’t physically fit. I always walked to the little mom and pop store for my Mom, buying bread,milk. cold cuts as a child. The first time I sent my son, Now in his forties, to the store, he was 7 years old. I hid in the bushes on my bike-riding parallel to his walk, so he wouldn’t know I was checking on him. just to make sure he was OK. After that, he went without me tailing him. He felt so proud to be able to do this.
Now that school is out and people have more control of their children and grandchildren, I suggest they have the children read the works of the school banned writers, Mark Twain, Jack London and Rudyard Kipling. Have them give a spoken book report on the books they read so they can articulate what they read coherently. Some of the reason you seldom hear our young people speak is because their brains are functioning properly because of overuse of gadgets and seldom going outdoors. This is a good time to deprogram these young people from the damage done to them in the so-called “schools.”
Mr. Dilberger makes a lot of sense to me. People will learn to read and do math, etc., when they decide they have a need to do so, a la the philosophy of Summerhill education.
https://libcom.org/library/summerhill-education-versus-standard-education-s-neill
My children have read books by Twain, London and Kipling as part of their language arts program at their respective schools. (Referring to comments #94.)
White Fang-a book by Jack London/is read in grades 4-6. Call of the Wild, also by Jack London, is read in grades 4-8. Mark Twain’s Tom Sawyer and Huckleberry Finn are read in schools, as well as Just So Stories-by Rudyard Kipling -for younger students. Where did you get the notion that these authors are banned in the public school sectors? 94
94-All of the young people I know-and there are many-speak readily and often. What a ridiculous generalization., 94 They are eager to engage in conversation with family and friends.
#s 93 &95 – Thanks much for the support.
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#s 96,97,98 – Yes, they do put out versions (abridged/changed) of those men’s writings but you have to understand the educrats are tricky people. They will never admit that what your son or daughter read was not the authors original version. The children are allowed to read the only selected books by those authors. for example, what’s the chances your child would be allowed to read Kipling’s poem, “Gunga Din” or “The Stranger? Slim and none I’d say. Then there’s the point that there are a whole lot other books banned from our so-called “schools.” They aren’t enamored with the works George Orwell or Margaret Mead either but there are many others as well. I can see Stalin down there in hell smiling like a Cheshire cat (I wonder if Alice in wonderland is banned too?).
99-You are wrong on all counts-You’d be
amazed at what students are reading in schools nowadays. You are behind the times. Students read a wide variety of books . You are not up to date. I am in a position to know this reality.
Books read in high schools today:
To Kill A Mockingbird
The Great Gatsby
Lord of The Flies
Macbeth
Hamlet
1984
The Odyssey
Fahrenheit 451
The Crucible
Brave New World
The Giver
(No lightweight reading)
99-Of course the book are original versions! There are no such things as abridged versions. I know what students read-why would you suggest such a thing? What evidence do you have of this?
My child read Gunga Din in rschool. What are the chances??
Interesting thoughts on reading.
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Now, what are your thoughts on my idea of progressively educating about (20 boys) in an educational group largely outdoors experiencing their through motion within it, their physical environment (purely voluntary by the boy’s parents). It is essential we start this progressive type experiential education after than keep going along year after year with the obsolete traditional educational system we know isn’t working.
104-Why do you think the traditional system of education isn’t working? What would the outdoor learning be based on?
I went all through public schools and never read a watered-down book-classics or otherwise.
My children read Animal Farm and Lord of the Flies in school.
105 – Good question. I hope it is an actual question. The project would be based on experiential education and would be purely voluntary. I would like to get the “worst” boys possible. We would start with an interview and work from there. We don’t want people with low IQ, just normal boys repelled by traditional classroom concept. The actual education would be centered on the outdoors and motion. But there would be classroom work (also outside if possible). There wouldn’t be many “games” but it would be very physical (we’re looking to educate the whole boy, mental, physical and emotional). There would also be plenty of outside projects. Field trips, would be part of it. Possibly we could get some lumber donated by the lumber yard and build a small shed. Partner up with the DPW and have them police up a certain area of trash. We would require the boys to sing and dance. We’d teach them map reading/making/compass reading. First aid would be taught. But the main part would be getting them to use their senses. I’ll stop here for now. I hope that’s helpful. I await your response.
#108 – they have this already. It’s called scouts
108-Interesting ideas, and very possible. Ideally full curricula centered around the outdoors should be developed..including your ideas of map/directional skills. If the boys are building a shed, math skills could easily be incorporated into that project. Measuring land areas could be part of building the shed. To fully develop outdoor learning would time time with attention to details. Writing skills could be incorporated by having the boys write about the days events by the end of the day. Science is easily included into outdoor education. This type of learning would certainly appeal to young boys who are unmotivated about school. But in this day and age, we couldn’t exclude girls. The other part to think about-alternative plans would have to be in place for bad weather. The instructor would have to need to sets of lessons-one for good weather and one for inclement weather. Lots of planning-also safety must be at the forefront. If this type of education would ever be brought to the attention of educators, then a great deal of proactive consideration would have to take place.
Bring Outward Bound Education models into the schools, like in NYC.
#110 – Interesting thoughts. First though. Try thinking in depth. how can anyone exclude girls? There can never be any concept of exclusion of girls. Actually, girls/women are always at the bottom of anything a boy/man does. There’s never any way around it. But some things must be done at some points apart from each other to make the service towards the other sex more efficient.
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Yes, the boys wouldn’t be outdoors in inclement weather like I’ve said I earlier posts. But in tolerable weather, they should be outdoors for reasons of health. It is exactly the idea of boys being indoors so much that makes them weak and sickly as they are now.
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Lastly, the idea of “safety” is much used to not do things. Interesting thing about safety is that there is no real safety in this life. Things happen and people are injured and killed while doing everything “right” and there are other people who do many things wrong and come out the other end without a scratch. All anyone can do is try to teach the best things to people and hope for the best. But there is really no such thing as “safe.” I’ve learned that through hard experience which of course is the best teacher.
112-Please clarity your message about girls. I’m getting a mixed message from you. If schools or other agencies are promoting activities for children, then great attention to safety procedures must be in place. Nothing to do with an excuse for not wanting to do things. What is your plan for when the weather isn’t good for outdoor play? What will the boys be doing instead? Also you never addressed why you referred to educators as Marxist. Please do so.
#113 – Madam, It’s pretty much beyond your nature to understand this subject matter. But if you actually are able to formulate a genuine question, I will entertain it.
Why are you against public education? Why did you refer to educators as Marxist? What do you mean by new way of living? Why are people who voted Yes on the school referendum reactionaries? Why do you think boys should climb trees and throw stones as part of their education? When have you actually been inside a classroom and observed the academic process in action? All these for 114. I am perfectly capable of understanding your e-mails and marvel at your inane thoughts. I am college educated with degrees and beyond. I think your remarks, # 114, are cop outs. You can’t answer the questions posed so you cop out . Can’t imagine your condescending “intellectual “ attitude. Hysterical!
114-What did you mean when you called educators Marxist? You never answered that question.
115 – Madam, no reason for me to explain further to you. Unfortunately, you’re just not up to this subject matter.
Most of the female women who are “teachers” don’t even know they’re teaching Marxism.
So what is Marxist teaching? You don’t know either, Mr. Dilberger. What a cop out! I’m very much up to the subject matter. Please answer the question about topics you brought up, and know nothing about.
117-Because you can’t explain your own remarks, you claim that the person asking the questions is below par in the smarts department. Laughable!
Men and women operate of two different levels of understanding, one is feelings the other logic. Thus, any “explanation” I may attempt would be incomprehensible to you (this is not an insult – just logic).
121-Just another cop out for your inability to explain your own positions..as illogical and superficial as they stand. Please save your claim of superior intelligence for someone who thinks like you.but there’s no one in the world like that. You stand alone with your “brilliant” ideas, Mr. D! Yes, I’m a woman, and studied math, theory and logic in college-they go hand in hand. Where did you study logic, Mr. D? Let me guess…in the school of hard knocks and in the work place. In the “real” world.
99-My grandchild is reading Shakespeare in the 8th grade. Not abridged -the original content.
#122 – I’m sure you don’t know it but you just made my case.
#123 – No child should be reading Shakespeare in 8th grade and boys/young men shouldn’t be subjected to it until at least college and maybe not even then.
124-What can you possibly know about what students should, or shouldn’t be reading? How can you know how the material is being presented or taught? How can you possibly know how the students are absorbing the classics? You are no authority on any subject having to do with learning. You just made my case. Earlier you posted that certain books are banned in public schools. Now you are stating what books should be banned. What can you possibly know about what preparations take place before the literature is introduced?
125-Give it up! Mr. Dilberger has no knowledge about anything, especially education . His statements are beyond belief. You can hammer away, but he has a false sense of his intellect-which we all know doesn’t exist. You’ll never be able to convince him of how empty his thoughts are.
#’s – 123 & 125, Ladies, ladies, you’re working yourselves up into a frenzy. I’m only trying to help you. I in no way think you’re stupid or silly, only logically underenhanced
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#126 – Sir, thank you for your support.
127-Wrong on all counts.
If Dilberger read Marx under a psuedenum he’d say “hear hear!” Look into Marx and look at the statements Dilberger makes.
Ideology has nothing to do with most people’s stance (or I should say position). Dilberger picked a side. He can’t zoom out and see how his progaganda is all over the road, ideologically speaking.
Responding to 129-When asked as to why he called teachers Marxist, Dilberger could not respond because he has no idea what Marxist means. You’re so right-he chooses a side and won’t back down, even though he has no idea what he’s talking about. Dilberger obviously has no respect for the education system, and can’t figure out how to support his ideas. New way of living, obsolete, reactionary-are words he uses -climbing trees, throwing rocks as learning experiences, girls don’t need to be educated in the same fashion as boys…these are all of his ridiculous notions. But sadly, he believes them.
You all are ridiculous for pursuing this thread.
“Humor is reason gone mad.”
And 130 – Marx agrees with doling out jobs to people based on their gender and station in life, as opposed to our culture of providing everyone the same chance to become whatever you want.
131 – you’re right and thanks for the reminder :o) Over and out.
#133 “Blessed are the cracked, for they let the light in.
~over and out~
127-Women are Not logically unenhanced? What does that mean? It takes logic
for a woman to raise children, run a household and hold a job. It takes logic to pay the bills, as many women do, and reconcile the check books. It takes logic to balance family relationships, husband, children, in-laws. It takes logic to get to see the rights and wrongs of life. It takes logic to weigh what the needs of the family are. The women are the centers of the household. Of course, logic prevails in all that they do. Mr. Dilberger doesn’t understand what logic means. Women are unenhanced logically? Is unenhanced even a word?
Maria or the Wrongs of a Woman. Heartbreaking.
To say that women are not as logical as men Is incorrect. My father had his own business, and my mother helped with every aspect of the business. This included managing the finances, all appointments, and scheduling jobs . She did all this while running a household and raising 4 children, having dinners on time, and entertaining in-laws on a regular basis. How could she balance all of this without a logical approach to life? I think she was more typical of women than not. Today’s women do all these things, including jobs outside the homes. They also support their children’s activities. Logic means thinking through situations, weighing options, and making appropriate decisions. If all these concepts don’t apply to women and spell logical insight, I don’t know what does.
Ok, women really run the world, men think they do because women let them believe that they do. (There is probably a Grouchoism about that.) That is not logical, but true. And that practice generally keeps peace in the house. Yes dear, you are so strong and capable, blah blah blah. In cultures where men are most macho, women have learned to become devious. That is not logical, just common sense for survival. For the record, logic is a method of reasoning, not a reflection of life skills.
I would add to my above comment something from a scene in the original Star Trek. Mr. Spock who is half Vulcan and half Human, was talking to his father the Vulcan about why he had married his wife who was Human. Of course Vulcans control their emotions by suppressing them, possibly eliminating them. The future mother of Spock was of course emotional by nature, antithetical to the Vulcan way. Spock’s father replied, “It was the logical thing to do.” Did not make sense to me, but the answer elicited a quizzical look from Spock. Some message about the lack of logic in love, I guess…
138-Life skills are often based on decision-making;reasoning and logic certainly play a role in determining outcomes of life situations. Reasoning( logic)and life skills go hand in hand.
#135 – Is unenhanced even a word?
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Yes, I remember exactly when this word became officially a word. I was working on the Bethlehem job downtown, on Broadway in the late 70’s when an argument broke out in the dressing shanty between the American aborigines and the Palefaces over who was more Ironworkingly unenhanced than the other. It was about to get violent when Oscar D.(our walking boss) came in and inquired just what the ruckus was about? Each side told him their case and (his father was a paleface and his mother was an American aborigine)John thought for a minute (the place was silent because John was thought of as a sage). He then sagely settled the argument to everybody’s satisfaction. He said, “If you can say it, it’s a word.” The Aborigines said “Ugh”, and the palefaces said, “Yeah, what he said,” and then we all went to work as brothers, serene and tranquil.
#141 Great point showing wisdom. I tip the proverbial hat to you, whatever that means. Point is – don’t argue with Dilberger. It ain’t logical, or is it… Man is a tribal animal, us and them, war and peace. (Why can’t we all just get along. Not said by Groucho but by a wise man, perhaps unbeknownst to himself.) Fin~
Mr. Dilberger-How can women raise children without logic? Teaching children to be logical (by example) is what they do in a loving, maternal way. Mothers are always guided by logic as they make important decisions centered around their children. Teaching children right from wrong is based on logic. To think differently, and say that women aren’t logical, makes no sense. But this is nothing new for Mr. Dilberger’s ridiculous way of viewing the world.
Albert Einstein: The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
Female women teach little children morals, not logic. Logic is taught by hard experience. In most female women’s worldview, not doing something is considered “safe”, but needed experience is not gained by not doing something. Lastly, women should back off a bit when a boy reaches the age of seven so the boy can be taught more by his father.
145-This comment makes no sense.
“All that I am or hope to be I owe to my mother.” Abraham Lincoln.
Poem by William Ross Wallace-“The hand that rocks the cradle is the hand that rules the world. “
“Most mothers are instinctive philosophers.” Harriet Beecher Stowe
Many famous men who are strong examples of masculinity-were raised by single Moms.
#147 – “All that I am or hope to be I owe to my mother.”
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It’s because of his mom he trashed the constitution(10th Amendment)and started a war that resulted in the deaths of 600,000+ Americans?
151-Mr. Dilberger rewrites History.
Raised by single Moms:
Larry Bird, A-Rod, Shaquille O’Neill
Virtually military wives raise their children/boys alone while their husbands are away serving our country. I hear those youngsters/boys are outstanding individuals. Certainly, their Dads serve as excellent examples as they honor our country with their service. But the day-to-day examples are set by Moms. Their sons are involved in sports and enjoy other male-type activities. To state that women lack logic is the most inane statement I’ve ever heard. Who is this person who makes these remarks?
The Civil War was fought over states’ rights versus federal law and slavery.
#154 – In that particular case, it was all about the 10th Amendment (Amendment X
“The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.”)
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That’s as clear as it gets. Lincoln was a lawyer and knew exactly he was trashing the constitution. The slavery issue was just eyewash for the rubes who were going to get themselves killed.
155-Clearly an incorrect interpretation for the Causes for the Civil War. One of the few people in the US to trash Lincoln for his own purposes.
Actually, the most important history of that entire era is “Reconstruction.” I gave a lecture on Reconstruction once. I didn’t do too well, but if I did another one, I’d do better. We shouldn’t have done the things we did to the Southerners.
Hey Dilberger – Show me any document leading up to or during the civil war that talks about preserving states rights.
In fact, the south fought against states rights because they hated that blacks were escaping enslavement in their states in order to be free in northern states. They wanted a difference president in their new country and share the same laws across each of their southern states. The principle law they fought to keep was slavery. There’s lots of evidence of that both leading up to and during the civil war. Only after the war was won by the north did the south come up with this preposterous notion that they fought for states rights.
Folks, don’t fall for this tired old arguement from people who prefer the southern old ways to the “new” manner of living.
158 – I always wondered why the Southerners treated us Yankees the way they did when I was down there in the sixties. To us, the Civil War was just a series of dates taught to us in our Yankee schools. I had the same idea as you that hey, “it’s over, why are you living hating Yankees for.” Well, they were taught the real Civil War and it wasn’t just a bunch of dates they forgot 5 minutes after the test was over. When you go down there, even today, make sure to stay in the Yankee enclaves in NC, SC, Fla, etc. Don’t get off the beaten track. You’d be in for a nasty lesson. Read what we did to them after the War. Start with a nasty little group I never heard of, The “Union League” and their activities – very, very interesting stuff there.
159-Totally incorrect interpretation of Civil War history.
157-When is your next lecture? Can’t wait to hear your words of wisdom!
Tom, my in-laws live in VA, my daughter went to school in Savannah, my sister lived in and around Charleston for awhile, I’ve been to Fort Sumpter, and what I know about the history makes me hate General Sherman for his terrorist actions.
But you didn’t provide proof about your claim that the war was about states’ rights. Show me documents leading up to or during the civil war proving that was their motive. That ought to keep you busy for awhile.
#162 – First off, I’ve done my homework. But I will give you one tidbit to chew on about the aftermath of the “War of Northern Aggression.” The Radical Republicans were scared to death to bring charges of treason against Jefferson Davis in a court of law so they just let him walk which was the smart thing to do. After all, the 10 Amendment/states rights was still there and people would probably have been a bit testy if Davis was proved innocent after all the blood that was expended.
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Also interestingly, a few governors right now are using the 10th Amendment/states rights to tell the president he can’t order them around about this covid-19 situation.
I’m all for states’ rights Tom. You still haven’t answered my question.
#164 – So you support states rights now. Just the other day, it seemed you didn’t support states rights (158) are some peoples states rights more equal than other people’s states rights? Well, I do recognize the right of all female women to change their mind.
165 – reread the previous posts. I argued that the tired old claim that the civil war was about states’ rights was bogus. I did not say I was against states rights.
It’s ok, we women have to be extra careful how we express ourselves. Luckily folks like yourself keep us on our feet.
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