Common Sense For Belmar Liberty Begins At Home

November 19, 2019

Planning Board Meeting Of November 18, 2019

Filed under: Uncategorized — admin @ 6:11 am

71 Comments »

  1. Planning board voted 5-4 that this spot zoned redevelopment plan (for only these two properties) is not consistent with the master plan. So now it sounds like it is Up to council if they are going to overturn the opinion of its planning board?

    Comment by Guest — November 19, 2019 @ 6:46 am

  2. I’m still trying to figure-out where the proposed 4 story building height came from…

    https://www.dmrarchitects.com/projects/planning/belmar-heights/

    Comment by eugene creamer — November 19, 2019 @ 8:15 am

  3. Gene – Possibly they mean to use the street level as parking under the building and three stories of dwelling units atop.

    Comment by Tom Dilberger — November 19, 2019 @ 9:05 am

  4. It’s time for the council to revisit the MASTER PLAN for the town. Now that Belmar has been developed over the past couple of years it doesn’t fit our needs anymore. It makes it very hard for the planning board to disapprove and any outrageous development that is put before them. It needs to be changed.

    Comment by Belle — November 19, 2019 @ 9:46 am

  5. I agree with Belle stop building.

    Comment by Revised master plan — November 19, 2019 @ 11:40 am

  6. Yes! I also agree!

    Comment by Stop Now — November 19, 2019 @ 12:37 pm

  7. What are the board members that did vote to approve?

    Comment by BB — November 19, 2019 @ 12:46 pm

  8. I also agree with you Belle. The PROBLEM is the revisiting of the Master Plan, and possible stunt in growth, would not be beneficial to the Deep State. Those few people making tons of money off of you. I guarantee your taxes will go up at a higher rate than disproportionate to the amount of building that takes place. Take that to the bank. SPEND SPEND SPEND. Just watch

    Comment by Anonymous — November 19, 2019 @ 1:08 pm

  9. I would hope that the Mayor and Council Members that were not in attendance last night will watch the entire video.

    Comment by Sandra Caputo — November 19, 2019 @ 1:10 pm

  10. Is that Mike Campbell on the planning board? God, when are we going to get rid of that arrogant sob.

    Comment by Please! — November 19, 2019 @ 5:15 pm

  11. Mr Creamer could it be that because the commercial zone has a 45 foot height that they figure they can take advantage of that? The lawyer and planner kept stressing its not in the Seaport Development.
    Now to Mayor and Council. This is an opportunity for the new administration to get behind the residents and protect us from OVER development.

    Comment by Katrina — November 19, 2019 @ 5:37 pm

  12. Katrina, you are dreaming they all do whatever the mayor asks.Walsifer will do more building than the last two mayors combined.

    Comment by Builder — November 19, 2019 @ 6:16 pm

  13. Did they ever disclose who the developers are? It was a bit awkward how the board attorney and some members seemed to be strongly advocating for the changes.

    Comment by Guest — November 20, 2019 @ 12:38 am

  14. I think it is unacceptable that the microphones still do not work for these meetings. Stop worrying about movies on the beach and carpet and furniture and fix the microphone system first.

    Comment by Guest — November 20, 2019 @ 5:03 am

  15. https://www.stateinfoservices.com/property/1307/95/7

    Owner Information
    Owners Name: SACHEM POND, LLC TAX Billing Zip: 07719
    Billing Address: 124 INLET TERRACE TAX Billing Zip+4:
    Billing City & State: BELMAR, NJ 07719 Owner Occupied: No

    Comment by Simple — November 20, 2019 @ 7:35 am

  16. #8- Are you saying that the private developers that make money off of the incentives created by policy makers are the ‘deep state’? They are private citizens that are using the system that was created by elected officials. I agree that the policy, at least here in Belmar, is an unnecessary one but “those few people making tons of money off you” are investors. The term ‘deep state’ was popularized by a writer and former civil servant named Mike Lofgren that did not mean what the far right conspiracy theorists have decided it means. Although it first appears in 1871, It was used frequently in the mid 2000s to describe the stated policy of the right to block anything that then president Obabama wanted to accomplish. Sound familiar? It is actually meant to be an indictment of our national security agencies and the intermingling with private industry. BOTH national parties benefit greatly from ‘the deep state’. Pretending that there is some concerted effort to derail only this current president is nonsense.
    I do agree with you that taxes will go up but mostly because the PILOT deals struck between the developers and the last administration will put strain on the school budget which will result in the school portion of our taxes going above the 2% cap.

    Comment by deep dish — November 20, 2019 @ 8:23 am

  17. Let us all remember that this parcel was approved for redevelopment under the Dorehty administration. It is another piece of his legacy. If memory serves me right Mark was the only one who thought the original plan was too big and to close to neighbors when presented to council.
    I personally believe in development. I also want our present administration to consider the neighborhood as suggested in our Master Plan. In a perfect world East side of Main should have at least the same 100 ft set backs from residential houses as the new buildings up at 5th in Seaport redevelopment zone. Unfortunately the current commercial zone CBD-1, that these properties are in already have a 45 ft height restriction and only need 10ft on side and 25 ft on back if abutting residential property.
    It’s a tough situation. By incorporating lot 5 and 7 into the redevelopment plan of the bank property, will it give the borough more power to restrict usage by forgoing the commercial zoning already there? If so, can’t the planner be sent back to the drawing board to re-evaluate that entire site?
    I agree we should not be pressured by development zeal to not taking time to fully and openly consider all options. But I admit to confusion on both the process and legalities before us.
    I would ask our Mayor and Council to fully explain our situation at either a town meeting or special meeting.

    Comment by Katrina — November 20, 2019 @ 9:51 am

  18. The planning board attorney stated in this meeting that if they voted no, the threshold would be raised from a simple majority to something more. Does anyone know what the threshold is for the Dec 3rd vote on the draft redevelopment plan is?

    Comment by Another Highrise — November 20, 2019 @ 10:45 am

  19. Anyone see Russo and/or McBride at this meeting “fighting” for affordability? Or at least asking questions?

    Comment by callmecynical — November 20, 2019 @ 10:52 am

  20. Thank you Katrina for (sadly) your uncommon sense in this matter.

    Remember – there was a time when we could have thwarted the previous administration’s plans, and a handful of bloggers here did (Pay to Play ordinance, Ocean Ave zoning) but I gotta say it’s really frustrating to read people bitch about the details as if they don’t know we already lost the war. The next course of action is to rewrite the Master Plan, keeping in mind 2 things: Storm and Sea Level projections, and the Redevelopment Zone.

    Comment by Aileen — November 20, 2019 @ 11:00 am

  21. #15 Simple – you expose someone’s identity but hide your own? That’s pretty cowardly.

    Comment by Aileen — November 20, 2019 @ 11:02 am

  22. FYI- below is the applicable section of the Local Redevelopment and Housing Law (LRHL)

    40A:12A-7. Adoption of redevelopment plan

    e. Prior to the adoption of a redevelopment plan, or revision or amendment thereto, the planning board shall transmit to the governing body, within 45 days after referral, a report containing its recommendation concerning the redevelopment plan. This report shall include an identification of any provisions in the proposed redevelopment plan which are inconsistent with the master plan and recommendations concerning these inconsistencies and any other matters as the board deems appropriate. The governing body, when considering the adoption of a redevelopment plan or revision or amendment thereof, shall review the report of the planning board and may approve or disapprove or change any recommendation by a vote of a majority of its full authorized membership and shall record in its minutes the reasons for not following the recommendations. Failure of the planning board to transmit its report within the required 45 days shall relieve the governing body from the requirements of this subsection with regard to the pertinent proposed redevelopment plan or revision or amendment thereof. Nothing in this subsection shall diminish the applicability of the provisions of subsection d. of this section with respect to any redevelopment plan or revision or amendment thereof

    Comment by eugene creamer — November 20, 2019 @ 12:11 pm

  23. Thank you Mr. Creamer. So did I mishear the planning board attorney? I thought I heard him say that the threshold goes up for the council if the planning board voted no, but I don’t see that in the passage you posted in #22

    Comment by Another Highrise — November 20, 2019 @ 12:34 pm

  24. #21- COWARDLY???? Really???? Wasn’t it either you or your buddy #17 that has openly admitted on this blog to have hidden behind a false (anonymous) name?? And #15- Thank you very much for the information. Keep it coming.

    Comment by Anonymous — November 20, 2019 @ 1:32 pm

  25. #23 … My read (non-attorney) of the LRHL would require 3 affirmative votes to pass Ordinance 2019-35.

    Perhaps more concerning is the presumptive schedule for a vote on Dec 3rd … where the Planning Board’s 45 day ‘shot clock’ ends on or about Dec 21.

    Comment by Anonymous — November 20, 2019 @ 2:06 pm

  26. With all these over sized appartment buildings being built, and limited parking, a municipal parking garage is in our future… Bye bye quaint town, hello city life…

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 20, 2019 @ 3:51 pm

  27. @Summer Timer- hard to believe you are in town during the summer. It is far from quaint, hasn’t been quaint in a long time. Do you live near Ocean Ave? I live on it. I hear the drunks heading home in the wee hours. And I am on the north end! I imagine closer to DJais is worse. Winter it is quite quaint, but not in the summer. Hard to get any peace, unless it is a rainy day.

    Comment by not so quaint — November 20, 2019 @ 5:06 pm

  28. 15 – Thanks, but the question is more the disclosure of who are all of the LLC members?

    Comment by Guest — November 20, 2019 @ 5:33 pm

  29. #27,,, I am on north end as well… The weeknights in the summer are not bad, weekend evenings can get loud… However, I was referring to the aesthetics of the town…

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 20, 2019 @ 5:39 pm

  30. Katrina
    I would ask our Mayor and Council to fully explain our situation at either a town meeting or special meeting.
    ————————————
    Like Flip Wilson said, “What you see is what you got.”
    This mayor and council are going to approve all sorts of “development” regardless of how it hurts our town. All they’re looking at is the acquisition of dollars. The difference between this administration and last is the last administration was led by a man who was up to no good and he duped his inexperienced council into voting for his schemes. Whereas this administration is only focused, wrongly, on hurting the town under the illusion of “progress.”

    Comment by Tom Dilberger — November 20, 2019 @ 7:31 pm

  31. Summer Timer don’t worry you will never see a parking garage in Belmar until we have 80 degree weather year round.

    Comment by Registered Democrat — November 20, 2019 @ 7:59 pm

  32. #24 I have never posted anonymously on this blog. I’m a firm believer in open communication. And an opinion or information given anonymously is really just rumor or innuendo. Come on people, quit hiding. Let’s get Common Sense back to being an open exchange of opinion, info and ideas. What in the world is everyone so afraid of??

    Comment by Katrina — November 20, 2019 @ 10:33 pm

  33. Katrina – This is the way everyone lives now, like scared rabbits – It’s part of the new manner of living.

    Comment by Tom Dilberger — November 21, 2019 @ 4:23 am

  34. For anyone interested in signing the petition against four-stories we have started a new digital version for signatures. If you have already signed the printed copy no need to sign again: http://chng.it/6jY5QCjqmX

    Comment by Believe in Belmar — November 21, 2019 @ 8:47 am

  35. What is wrong with the look of the current bank building and why not a string of stores to the east to the existing drive-thru building with 1 floor of housing above? Why does everything have to be so overbuilt?

    Comment by Guest — November 21, 2019 @ 9:59 am

  36. #35 Greed, that’s how you make millions.

    Comment by Anonymous — November 21, 2019 @ 10:51 am

  37. #32- Katrina, I do apologize.

    #21- Aileen, On 10/29/2019 you responded to a blog labeled Aiming to persuade. At 401 pm on 10/29/19, post #29, you wrote “I must admit I do sometimes post anonymously”. Hypocritical and quite cowardly. (in your own words) Do as I say and not what I do????

    Comment by Anonymous — November 21, 2019 @ 1:18 pm

  38. Those commenters who use fake names or simply “anonymous” keep this blog interesting and are not big chickens or rabbits, just cautious and bold. Some may wish to spread misinformation or gossip, a hazard, but an open forum is an open forum. So, who wrote “Poor Richard’s Almanac”? Benjamin Franklin.

    Comment by Miss Nomer — November 21, 2019 @ 2:33 pm

  39. #37… Just ignore her… #32 If you eliminate all the anonymous comments, this blog would be a very limited….. Just review this string, 70% of comments are anonymous….

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 21, 2019 @ 3:06 pm

  40. I must say, in general, I am quite tired of hearing what people who live here 1/4 of the year have to say about how we should run our town. And don’t give me the “if it wasn’t for us you wouldn’t be able to survive”. That’s not remotely true anymore. Please come visit our town, but don’t tell us how to run it!

    Comment by Ms. DeMeaner — November 21, 2019 @ 3:45 pm

  41. Belmar Historical Society Facebook page has many great photos including an interesting picture as their cover for all complaining about heights and number of stories of the recently proposed and approved projects. It seems there were some taller buildings, much taller than those you are complaining about now, back in 1937. In some places smaller buildings were built, some larger lots were subdivided and multiple structures have been built. This is what happens, things evolve and change. Some will like it, some won’t. Go to meetings be a part of the process, but also know the history of our quaint town.

    Comment by not so quaint — November 21, 2019 @ 4:36 pm

  42. #40…Yeah Right… What would happen if the vacation home owners no longer were required to pay property tax… Lets see how well the town would do with tax revenue cut in half… If I remember correctly didn’t a war start because of “taxation without representation”…

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 21, 2019 @ 5:47 pm

  43. #40 – I respectfully disagree with your comment. I’m pretty sure “your” town would miss my sizable tax payment every year (and those of many other second home owners).

    Comment by Miss Deed — November 21, 2019 @ 6:54 pm

  44. Just listen to most (not all) people that spoke,” I lived here the last 9 years” , “I moved from Hudsan County 7 years ago” How about you go back? A lot of the Belmar Originals like the change. Now that they have been in town 2 minutes they are going to tell us what Belmar should be.

    Comment by Belmar original — November 21, 2019 @ 7:06 pm

  45. The petition is the right move. If the Mayor and Council vote Yes to override the planning board, the threat of a petition and referendum vote should slow them down. But, and I say “but”, money always talks, sorry to say.

    Comment by ms.perspicacity — November 21, 2019 @ 7:45 pm

  46. Oh spare me the high horse attitude and holier than thou attitude. We don’t need you anymore. There are more than enough year round residents to sustain the town. Go home.

    Comment by Ms. DeMeaner — November 21, 2019 @ 10:21 pm

  47. #46… You are clearly a low information blogger….

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 22, 2019 @ 6:09 am

  48. #46 – Oh, Ms deMEANer, who is really showing the holier than thou attitude here? I’ve owned a second home in Belmar for almost thirty years. I am not a landlord. We are positive, contributing members of the community. Fortunantely, I have never before had to deal with anyone there with such a negative, supercilious frame of mind.

    Comment by Look in the Mirror — November 22, 2019 @ 7:37 am

  49. Okay I’ll tell you why I posted a couple times anonymously – because some of the vitriol was so fierce I worried that I don’t really know these people who have such hatred for me….maybe they will stop by my house, maybe they’ll make comments to my kids, maybe they own or are going through the process of getting a gun. I know Mr. Dilberger has applied in the past, and look at the things he’s said about me. I do appreciate that he apologized (to my husband, not me of course) after one of his personal attacks. But really, who knows who might fly off the handle.

    So yeah – sometimes I’m weak. But I think you know that I post as myself even though I know it causes dozens of hostile posts about me and my opinions.

    After I blog here, I sometimes look at my kids and say, what am I doing here? I just spent 10 minutes here when I could have been with them.

    Comment by Aileen — November 22, 2019 @ 8:18 am

  50. #41 I was surprised by your comment that there were once buildings “much taller” than four stories, because I didn’t know that. Until I went to their page, and looked, and realized that either you were talking about about church steeples, school cupolas, or miscounted. Nowhere on that page are buildings “much taller” than four stories.

    I’m not against development, I just want reasonable development that fits the location. I actually like the building they built on 5th ave. It’s not obnoxious (other than the big black wall). It is set back from the houses behind it. It is a reasonable height for east of Main. Put something like that instead of the 4 story box with no parking they are planning to shoehorn into 9th ave

    Comment by Another Highrise — November 22, 2019 @ 9:20 am

  51. @Another Highrise comment 51

    umm.. look at aerial shot on their Facebook page. a few 5 story buildings in that shot. Surrounding the White House. https://www.facebook.com/belmarhistoricalsociety/photos/a.374827916030965/1329770437203370/?type=3&theater

    Comment by not so quaint — November 22, 2019 @ 10:26 am

  52. #44 & #46 – You do realize that you don’t own the town, don’t you? How dare you tell people to stay out. Especially tax paying individuals who contribute a great deal to our community. Where do you get off spewing such impudent statements?

    Comment by stopbeingillmannered — November 22, 2019 @ 10:49 am

  53. #46 – What are you talking about? We definitely need all our taxpayers to sustain our town. What a benighted assertion!

    Comment by anonymous — November 22, 2019 @ 11:04 am

  54. its all about the money … redevelopers prey on cash poor towns like Belmar … instead of waiting 2 years for construction & CO’s before collecting taxes … the town gets the first PILOT when the redevelopment agreement is signed

    Comment by eugene creamer — November 22, 2019 @ 11:16 am

  55. #49…. Some great free advice… In politics 50% of the population will love you and the other 50% will be haters…. You are already on the hotseat being a member of the BOE, why make your seat even hotter by blogging using your true identity…. GO ANONYMOUS young lady!!!!

    Comment by Summer Timer — November 22, 2019 @ 12:34 pm

  56. #19 – Hhmmmm… good question!

    Comment by Guest — November 22, 2019 @ 2:41 pm

  57. “Summer Timer” I think it’s better to know who’s saying what – I think people are more likely to be critical without becoming haters when they post their name. The person who posted the developer’s name without revealing his own was a crack up and I couldn’t resist pointing out the irony. Developer’s jobs are to develop. Politician’s jobs are to represent us. The people we need to know about are politicians.

    Comment by Aileen — November 22, 2019 @ 2:54 pm

  58. Oh but thanks for saying I’m young;)

    Comment by Aileen — November 22, 2019 @ 2:54 pm

  59. If you love the town so much, why don’t you live here year round? Too affluent to spend time with us peasants in the off season? But you can try to influence how the town is run right? Maybe you contributed to the north jersey lobbyists that backed McDirty and the Dems. Where did that come from anyway?

    And I don’t want to own the town, I already own a little real estate in some people’s heads. Good enough for me!

    Comment by Ms. Demeaner — November 22, 2019 @ 4:00 pm

  60. #49- your one of the biggest bullies on the site and one of the reasons I woulnt post my name. Things very quickly spiral out of control from a debate of facts to personal attacks. If that makes me a coward in your eyes fine

    Comment by Anonymous — November 22, 2019 @ 5:10 pm

  61. Gas Stations abound Ocean Avenue and Main Street all over Belmar. We’re those I underground tanks remediated? Remember Pyanoe Plaza oil contamination?

    Comment by Anonymous — November 22, 2019 @ 5:31 pm

  62. #59 – What???

    Comment by Anonymous — November 22, 2019 @ 5:47 pm

  63. #60 a bully is someone who attacks someone personally. I’ve never done that. If I disagree, argue, or even point out wrongdoings – that’s not bullying. You have every right to counter.

    Comment by Aileen — November 23, 2019 @ 10:38 am

  64. Dave when you consider keeping blog open at the end of your contract, perhaps you would consider only posting comments with names attached. The anonymous comments on your blog have turned it into a personal bashing, rumor mill. There is no dignity left on these pages. It has become an attack campaign kinda like those dark money flyers we all profess to hate so much.
    To openly disagree or debate, to share information and opinion, that’s what Common Sense for Belmar was. In my opinion it has turned into something much different. And not in a good way.
    And as all you anonymous people begin your attack on me remember you will just prove my point. Peace. Out.

    Comment by Katrina — November 23, 2019 @ 12:58 pm

  65. Dave, when you consider keeping the blog open at the end of your contract, perhaps you would consider only posting comments with NO names attached. We can all be anonymous. People feelings are getting hurt. As it stands now I wouldn’t know if Summer Time, or Old Man or Capt. Obvious were sitting next to me in the pew tomorrow so I don’t really understand what all the complaining is about. Next, they’ll be asking you publish photos and home addresses with each post. Ya can’t please everyone all the time.

    Comment by Hunter Biden — November 23, 2019 @ 7:11 pm

  66. When they’re sitting in the pew ya think they’ll hear the message “The truth shall set you free”?

    Comment by Hey Hunter — November 24, 2019 @ 9:25 am

  67. Amen my brother.

    Comment by Hillary Clinton — November 24, 2019 @ 1:04 pm

  68. Back to a comment that I believe was pointed out at the meeting…
    The apartments were originally to be condos on 10th correct? Thought the pitch was that the clientele that who would buy them were not likely to have children so no need to pay school taxes. When was the building approved to be apartments? Seems like a lot of apartment dwellers as well as home owners in Belmar have children.

    Comment by CC — November 24, 2019 @ 3:35 pm

  69. #68 not correct it was always apartments and always parking below never commercial space.

    Comment by Registered Democrat — November 25, 2019 @ 6:28 pm

  70. I respectfully disagree. The 10th Ave apt building was supposed to have retail space as part of the parking garage. They bricked up the windows when they realized they did not have enough spaces. Drive by the building and you will see what I am talking about.

    Comment by Incorrect #69 — November 26, 2019 @ 6:58 am

  71. #70 you can disagree I am just giving you the facts look a little closer and you will see that it is the design of the building, and all the spaces are not numbered as previously posted .

    Comment by Registered Democrat — November 26, 2019 @ 1:28 pm

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